Thursday, 29 March 2018

The Problem with Thieves



There is a lot that really helps to Nerf the Basic D&D Thief. Thieves are as weak and fragile as Magic Users and are slow to develop any real proficiency in Thieving. A 6th Level Thief will fail the majority of skill rolls. What makes it worse, is that other classes can often have Thief-like abilities.

A 1st level Dwarf can find traps more easily than a 5th level Thief (35% vs 30%).
A 1st level Halfling can hide in a dungeon better than a 5th level Thief (32% vs 30%) or in the woods better than a 11th level thief (90% vs 85%).
A 4th Level Cleric with a Find Traps spell can discover traps more reliably than a 14th Level Thief (100% vs 99%).
A 3rd level Magic User with a Knock spell is more skilled  in opening locks than a 14th Thief (100% vs 99%).

In my experience, it is very difficult to keep a Thief alive. This often results in the Thief cowering at the back of the party, with the Magic User. When a Thief is low level, a 2-16 sword back stab damage is significant. A back stab has the potential to one shot an average opponent. It is extremely important to the party's survival that a Thief back stabs. However, as the Thief levels and is now fighting Giants, the Thief's back stab becomes not as valuable. Back stab damage does not scale in Basic D&D.

The following Thief is a modification of Kutalik's Thief which is based on the LotFP "Thief" Specialist which, in turn, is based on the AD&D (2e) Thief.

Modified Thief

The Thief uses d6 Hit Dice for hit points. When attacking while hidden by Stealth, a 1st level Thief may backstab at +4 to hit and double damage. Triple damage at 5-8 level, quadruple at levels 9-12, and quintuple at levels 13 or above. (AD&D PHB p27)

 All Thief skill rolls are made on a d6. A skill check is successful if it is at or lower than the skill roll. At each new level past first, the thief can distribute points to a skill as they choose. A skill may be not go higher than 6. The GM should decrease or increase the chance of success for easier or more difficult tasks. Skill descriptions are the same as btb with the exception of Stealth which covers both Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. At level 9, the Thief can also begin to use Magic User scrolls. (Kutlaik)

If a Thief has a skill with a rating of 6 in 6, the roll to succeed is made with two dice, and only if both dice come up 6 does the attempt fail. (LotFP p17)

Base Thief Skills
Climb Walls: 4
Pick Pockets/Slight of Hand: 1
Find/Remove Traps: 1
Find Secret Door/Hidden Object: 1
Locks: 1
Hear Noise: 2
Stealth: 1
Read Codes/Maps/Cyphers: 0
Read Magic Scrolls (at Level 9): 3
Disguise: 0 (General. Not a specific person.)

Exp
Level
Hit Dice (1d6)
Bonus Skill Levels
0
1
1
0
1250
2
2
2
2500
3
3
2
5000
4
4
2
10000
5
5
2
20000
6
6
2
40000
7
7
2
80000
8
8
2
160000
9
9
2
280000
10
10
2
400000
11
+1 hp
1
520000
12
+2 hp
1
640000
13
+3 hp
1
760000
14
+4 hp
1
880000
15
+5 hp
1
1000000
16
+6 hp
1
1120000
17
+7 hp
1
1240000
18
+8 hp
1
1360000
19
+9 hp
1
1480000
20
+10 hp
1
at

2 comments:

  1. Scott Anderson16 May 2018 at 19:46

    Congratulations on beginning to take apart the thief class. Rewriting and reinterpreting the Thief is like the senior thesis of the OSR. After you have done it satisfactorily, you can really consider your self an Old Bastard in good standing :)

    In my opinion, it is reasonable to presume general competence among adventurous men and their allies. That means the thief doesn't need to make rolls to do mundane things like climb a rope or pick a lock under ideal circumstances.

    The thief needs to make rolls to do superhuman things like climb a wall like spider-man or open a lock in a few seconds during combat or steal a crown right off the King's head.

    This means that yes, the demi-man is better at his special abilities than a human thief is; but the human thief can do things that seem impossible.

    I've actually dropped the thief entirely. Anyone can steal and sneak and bust open a lock or whatever. Sure there is a gap when it comes to those superhuman things, but the benefit is that everyone starts trying thief things, rather than standing around while one character is fooling around with stuff. It keeps the table involved at the expense of maybe some cool character abilities.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Vampire Rabbit8 August 2022 at 12:20

    I think LotFP finally fixed the thief with the Specialist.

    ReplyDelete

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
  • How It Started
    An old school gamer was selling part of his collection and I wound up with a bunch of original Basic D&D books. Having never pla...
  • Dungeon Magazine Adventures
      The old TSR Dungeon Magazine issues have been effectively declared public domain by the Internet Archive . Here are some adventures every...
  • The Problem with Thieves
    There is a lot that really helps to Nerf the Basic D&D Thief. Thieves are as weak and fragile as Magic Users and are slow to devel...
  • Strengthening the Basic D&D Magic User.
    Low level Magic Users have only a few spells. Once all the spells are cast, their contributions to the party can be very limited. He...
  • Minecraft
    Many wizards want to Minecraft. They want the tools to build simple magical constructs to solve problems. Most spells in basic D&D a...
  • NPC Puppets
      In a good campaign Non Player Characters must be alive. They can not be lifeless cardboard cut outs. They should have clear motivat...
  • A Simple Wizards Duel
        A wizard's duel is more interesting if there is a way of responding to your attacker's magic. There is no incentive to cast a de...
  • More NPCs
      Additional NPCs to cause problems for players: Henri Loojik – Mountebank, Fixer and last resort of the desperate adventurer....
  • Schools of Magic
    Many campaigns do not allow PCs access to a complete spell list. Magic Users do not get to pick and choose any spell as they lev...
  • Death Magic
    A party of 6 Adventures meet an evil 1 st level wizard with a sleep spell. Chances of a Total Party Kill: 1 st level Adventurer...